Hydraulic steering for outboard

[welder]

4 strokes make extra Voltage ?

When do they do it ? On the intake , compression , ignition or exhaust stroke.

Not trying to start anything , that just sounded funny to me. LOL

[Chisox]

And the best way to install a "bonding wire" would be to attach an 8GA to the tilt-tube end (3/4" nut) and to the Ram end (5/8" nut) with some big ring terminals and strain relief. Hmmmm, been in the boat building business 15 years, and never seen that...

[Capt. Thunder]

And the best way to install a "bonding wire" would be to attach an 8GA to the tilt-tube end (3/4" nut) and to the Ram end (5/8" nut) with some big ring terminals and strain relief. Hmmmm, been in the boat building business 15 years, and never seen that...

Below is my original request for information at sea star and Marcs answer.

> To whom it concerns.

> I have a 2004 Edgewater 205cc with the following Hydralic Cylinder: HC5345.

> We have replaced this part once under warrenty, but this bar is becoming

> pitted. My boat has tilt steering as well. I bought the boat new in 2005.

>

> Whenever the outside air temperature gets in the 30's and below, the

> steering wheel, makes a Thunking sound when the engine is first started.

> In this cold weather I have to turn the wheel rapidly to get it to

> respond, until it warms up.

>

> My yamaha mechanic indicates that a bearing is "sticking" in the helm and

> I probably need to replace it. I cannot find where the fluid is leaking,

> but we have added a 1/2 pint 3 mos ago.

>

> Since the steering is "out of warrenty" my mechanic recommends replacing

> the helm and rear cylinder both at the same time.

>

> These units are not lasting as expected and are expensive. Could you

> provide me with the correct kit that has the tilt helm and the HC5345

> cylinder. I know HK6400A Seastar kit does not have the tilt helm. But I

> cannot find the correct kits number.

>

> Thanks

> Rick

Marcs reply:

We do not offer a kit with a tilt helm. You will need to purchase the

parts individually.

The problem is not with the SeaStar units, they are the victims of the

root problem

You have stray current, this is attacking the cylinder shaft, which in

turn is allowing fluid to leak out and water to get into the system.

When the water/moisture enters the system it begins to attack the metal

parts that are at the helm pump.

Before you purchase a new helm pump, or cylinder. Suggest that you

contact Fluid Tech @ 904-384-9659 and have them take a look at both of

the units, depending on the damage, they may be able to repair them.

BEFORE you install the repaired, or the new parts you will have to blow

out the hoses with air pressure to ensure that no more of the

water/fluid mixture is in there, then. You will need to ground the

cylinder to the motor to prevent this in the future.

We have ground straps for these cylinders and if you let me know your

address I can send you one over there to use on the new parts

thanks

Marc

I called fluid tech and the lady there called seastar and she called me back. I work at

Gulfstream Aerospace and was on the phone with a customer and she left me the

message that they told her the 4strokes put out more voltage and needs to be grounded. They

now have a grounding strap, of which I have one on my new cylinder.

Glad you guys know it all!

[Chisox]

Email to Teleflex sent. Will find out tomorrow.

[horseradish]

I have a single outboard Sea Star front mount (single) cylinder hydraulic steering set up on my 18 foot Grady 180 sportsman. It seems like the responsivness of the steering is a bit less than when it was new 6 years ago. Never had leaks. Might just need to be sure the fill level is proper. Doesn't feel spongey. Should I just go ahead and bleed the system to be sure there isn't any air in it? Any advice?

Purists may squawk but adding a small amount of transmission "stop leak" to the cylinder before topping it off will keep your system alive and well for a longer time between adding fluid again.

Buy the special hose connection kit to make a seal between the refill bottle and the resevior fitting (costs under $5.00). Set up the connection, turn the refill bottle upside down and spin the wheel from left stop to right stop , repeat, repeat, repeat and watch the air bubbles from the system go up into the new fluid refill bottle. When the bubbles stop, close everything up and you're good to go!

It is NOT rocket science!

[cataholic]

Hey MVFLY,

You may know this, but if you decide to bleed the system, it is MUCH easier if you have someone to help you.

Good luck.

If you don't have help, find a reputable shop equipped with a power purge pump system. Makes flushing and bleeding a quick job.

[KeyPineSavage]

Capt. Thunder

About the pic you posted, I take it that is a pair of straps. I imagine you only install one on a single engine installation? Where exactly do the three lugs (two round and one toothed) go? I take it one on the cylinder apparatus somewhere and one on the engine, probably on the mount. But the third one? Thanks, I am a little concerned about this issue.

Will be interesting to see what Bob (250 Osprey) comes up with.

[kerno]

I call BS.

I'm going to jump in here before Bob gets back with his reply. If we are to believe the stray voltage theory, we'd have to find adequate isolation (insulation) between the pieces until the electrolyte (salt water) is added. The electrolyte has to act as a conductive medium between two surfaces, where one is grounded and the other has a positive current flow to it. Any corrosion will be at the interface of two dissimilar metals, not in the middle of the the shaft. So, I'll believe it when I see the corrosion only happening where two different materials meet.

Here's my take on the problem. When SeaStar took over Morse/Hynautic, they dropped the best steering cylinder, the Hynautic K-6. What made that cylinder great was the used of a 17-4 PH stainless shaft instead of the chrome plated steel shaft on the SeaStar. 17-4 PH(17 percent nickel, 4 percent chrome, precipitation hardenable) will develop a surface rust haze, but does not pit readily. I've seen some where the aluminum housing was badly corroded, but the shaft was still just fine.

But I've seen many more SeaStars where the housing is fine and the rod is junk. Why? First, the main shaft is mild steel and is soft. That makes it very vulnerable to being nicked. But the real problem is the chrome. Chrome makes a pretty surface but is very porous. To properly apply it to steel, you should put copper plate on first, followed by nickel and then the chrome. But you can short cut that process and have it still look good, but as soon as it sees salt, the salt gets in the pores of the chrome, corrodes the steel and pops tiny pieces of chrome off, resulting in what appears to be pits. Once the chrome is gone, the steel is exposed and the whole mess degrades quickly.

The good news is that the K-9 was continued in production by Teleflex Canada and they are now available here again. I have taken the SeaStar cylinder off every hydraulic cylinder equipped boat I've owned and replaced them with the Hynautic. I've also found that air in the system makes the movement of the engines jerky and contributes to play in the steering.

[Capt. Thunder]

Capt. Thunder

About the pic you posted, I take it that is a pair of straps. I imagine you only install one on a single engine installation? Where exactly do the three lugs (two round and one toothed) go? I take it one on the cylinder apparatus somewhere and one on the engine, probably on the mount. But the third one? Thanks, I am a little concerned about this issue.

Will be interesting to see what Bob (250 Osprey) comes up with.

I will try to take a picture of my setup tomorrow and post. That is the straps they sent me to stop the electrolosis, but since that wasn't going to fix the helm and cylinder that was leaking, I put them aside. Continue to work with seastar and they decided to replace the helm and cylinder. Along with that they sent 2 bottles of fluid and 1 grounding strap. I have a 150 yamaha 4stroke and we attached it to the port side of the motor. 2 of the wires go on the differnt nuts on the cylinder. The other we pushed thru the boot with the other cables going into the motor and my mechanic found a good spot to connect it.

Yeah I will be glad to hear what BOB finds out. Apparently everyone else including KERN thinks I am fabricating this. I only posted what happened to my boat in hopes it helps someone else.

However this will be the last time I comment on anything here. Teleflex was gracious enough to send me a whole setup, but I worked with them over this stray voltage issue. They also pointed out that stray voltage could come from other vessels at the marina I keep my boat at. I do have water storage, so I am in the water most of the year.

If anyone has any doubts about the grounding strap, why don't you email seastar and ask about the kit?

[Chisox]

I will try to take a picture of my setup tomorrow and post. That is the straps they sent me to stop the electrolosis, but since that wasn't going to fix the helm and cylinder that was leaking, I put them aside. Continue to work with seastar and they decided to replace the helm and cylinder. Along with that they sent 2 bottles of fluid and 1 grounding strap. I have a 150 yamaha 4stroke and we attached it to the port side of the motor. 2 of the wires go on the differnt nuts on the cylinder. The other we pushed thru the boot with the other cables going into the motor and my mechanic found a good spot to connect it.

Yeah I will be glad to hear what BOB finds out. Apparently everyone else including KERN thinks I am fabricating this. I only posted what happened to my boat in hopes it helps someone else.

However this will be the last time I comment on anything here. Teleflex was gracious enough to send me a whole setup, but I worked with them over this stray voltage issue. They also pointed out that stray voltage could come from other vessels at the marina I keep my boat at. I do have water storage, so I am in the water most of the year.

If anyone has any doubts about the grounding strap, why don't you email seastar and ask about the kit?

Thunder,

I think all here take your post seriously, as it is obvious that Teleflex is aware of an issue that is causing pitting/corrosion on the cylinder ram. Chances are, also the rod that passes through the tilt tube.

I believe the real issue is stray current from another source other than a 2S versus a 4S "Voltage Level". Remember, DC current has a direct path to ground within the confines of the boat, that being the negative post on the battery. AC, however, dumps it current path into the water. I think that is more the likely scenario that is taking place with the corrosion/pitting issue.

Thunder, relax. We are not saying you don't know what you are talking about. As a matter of fact, you have raised some excellent questions. But there are some definite issues that have been raised here, as evidenced by the existence of a "bonding kit" for the Seastar cylinder.

We'll find out. In the meantime, thanks for the info, and have a beer...

Bob C