Hydraulic steering for outboard

[lumberslinger178]

nice

[Chisox]

Lumber,

Ever been to the Mt. Dora Boat Show?

[Capt. Thunder]

Thunder,

I think all here take your post seriously, as it is obvious that Teleflex is aware of an issue that is causing pitting/corrosion on the cylinder ram. Chances are, also the rod that passes through the tilt tube.

I believe the real issue is stray current from another source other than a 2S versus a 4S "Voltage Level". Remember, DC current has a direct path to ground within the confines of the boat, that being the negative post on the battery. AC, however, dumps it current path into the water. I think that is more the likely scenario that is taking place with the corrosion/pitting issue.

Thunder, relax. We are not saying you don't know what you are talking about. As a matter of fact, you have raised some excellent questions. But there are some definite issues that have been raised here, as evidenced by the existence of a "bonding kit" for the Seastar cylinder.

We'll find out. In the meantime, thanks for the info, and have a beer...

Bob C

Osprey, You are most likely correct, as they stated that we could be getting the current from other boats in the marina, or something else on mine is not grounded. Anyway here is a picture of the grounding strap on my engine. Not a great picture as I have water storage and just got in from a 4 hr trip.

[Chisox]

Thunder,

Yeah, I see it. Attached via ring terminals to the rod thru your tilt tube, then daisy-chained to the cylinder ram itself.

We shall see what the outcome is. As I stated before, the "interesting" comment was the 2S Vs 4S "voltage" output comparison...

Thanks for the pic.

[Chisox]

Well, this is the reply I got this morning from my Teleflex rep:

Bob, good to hear from you. Although Teleflex has not issued any “official” statements on this, I can only tell you what I have heard. The pitting on the cylinder piston for years was blamed on salt water corrosion, but recently some engineer has done investigations and proposed that since an extremely high percentage of cylinders that are exposed to salt water for a long period of time do not show any signs of pitting, the problem probably is related to electrolysis.

I can say that I have not heard of many of these issues, so I do not recommend grounding the cylinders.

Next stop, Marc Adams.

[kerno]

I need to offer an apology to Capt. Thunder who thought I was calling BS on his post or his problem.

I am not. His post is valid and his problem is valid. I am questioning SeaStar identifying the problem as being caused by "stray voltage".

[hare2]

I call BS.

I'm going to jump in here before Bob gets back with his reply. If we are to believe the stray voltage theory, we'd have to find adequate isolation (insulation) between the pieces until the electrolyte (salt water) is added. The electrolyte has to act as a conductive medium between two surfaces, where one is grounded and the other has a positive current flow to it. Any corrosion will be at the interface of two dissimilar metals, not in the middle of the the shaft. So, I'll believe it when I see the corrosion only happening where two different materials meet.

Here's my take on the problem. When SeaStar took over Morse/Hynautic, they dropped the best steering cylinder, the Hynautic K-6. What made that cylinder great was the used of a 17-4 PH stainless shaft instead of the chrome plated steel shaft on the SeaStar. 17-4 PH(17 percent nickel, 4 percent chrome, precipitation hardenable) will develop a surface rust haze, but does not pit readily. I've seen some where the aluminum housing was badly corroded, but the shaft was still just fine.

But I've seen many more SeaStars where the housing is fine and the rod is junk. Why? First, the main shaft is mild steel and is soft. That makes it very vulnerable to being nicked. But the real problem is the chrome. Chrome makes a pretty surface but is very porous. To properly apply it to steel, you should put copper plate on first, followed by nickel and then the chrome. But you can short cut that process and have it still look good, but as soon as it sees salt, the salt gets in the pores of the chrome, corrodes the steel and pops tiny pieces of chrome off, resulting in what appears to be pits. Once the chrome is gone, the steel is exposed and the whole mess degrades quickly.

The good news is that the K-9 was continued in production by Teleflex Canada and they are now available here again. I have taken the SeaStar cylinder off every hydraulic cylinder equipped boat I've owned and replaced them with the Hynautic. I've also found that air in the system makes the movement of the engines jerky and contributes to play in the steering.

Kerno,

perhaps you remember, that I contacted you because of a pitted steering rod. I bought a used cylinder from you.

I hate Seastar, because the CS really sucks. Unfriendly arrogant jerks. BUT --- stray current could play a role though.

What I noticed : while having the batteries connected to a charging system (smart charger) AND the battery swithes ON (listening to the stereo) I touched the prop of one motor with my neck. I immediately noticed tickling current. Switching OFF the batteries while the charcher still ON ---- no recognizable current.

Also : the area where the rod is pitted corresponds to the cylinder when the motors are turned to starboard -- the position I store the boat on dryland (Davits).

Until now, I leave the battery switches OFF while charging. Perhaps I´ll give the grounding straps a try.

BTW, my boat always hangs on davits (out of the water) while charging. No water contact.

Interesting thread .

[Chisox]

Well, to any who have been awaiting a reply from Teleflex on the pitting issue, a couple of emails I received from my friend Marc Adams at Teleflex Technical support today:

Hey Bob:

Long time no talk for sure, but you are right about the lack of sales in any of the marine industry

now to the strap...

We did create this strap for use on our cylinders, the part number is HA5477...

The reason for this is over the last few years we have seen an increase of stray current corrosion issues attacking our cylinders. We have found that a lot of the problems did originate on boats fitted with Yamaha engines, not one engine in specific, mainly the higher 200+ HP engines, although we have seen it happen with other engines as well, Yamaha just seems to be the ones with the most, does it have anything to do with the engine, couldn't answer that as we are still learning about the problem ourselves.

We do know however that the ground strap seems to stop this problem in its tracks, at least the problem of our cylinder getting attacked, current is current and it will find another place to go, we just want to be sure that it is not our cylinder....

As a builder, I would suggest that if you have the means to install, then for sure do so, and, of course, making sure that everything is bonded properly.

I have suggested to other builders that if you are not sure, take a reading at the cylinder shaft. If you get any sort of reading, then that means there is a chance that the stray current may attack our cylinder, and then you should be installing the ground strap to prevent this..

thanks and let me know if you have any further questions

marc

As well as his follow up after I emailed him back with some comiserations about the boat building industry:

I wish that it was better. I have seen a not of friends leave Teleflex recently due to the markets being so low...

We are keeping our chins up though...

The tech lines have got way busier than the past.... We are seeing a lot of end users attempting repairs of old (I mean, old) parts....

Cheers

marc

So it would appear that Yam is the leading culprit, although he does mention "other engines". Now todays 4-Strokes, especially the Verados (which use Uflex cylinders) and Suzukis, require high battery voltages to maintain the data in their ECMs. Suzukis especially at initial programming. That would say to me that something in the wiring harnesses of these motors can't handle the continuous 13V+ that is coursing through its electrical arteries and is dumping current through the anode? Hell, I don't know, just passing along info. But there is an electrolysis event going on.

[kerno]

since it is so easy to add that grounding strap, that's what I am going to do. Adding the strap is way easier than replacing the cylinder or rod.

[Chisox]

Kerno,

Have at it. Marc even provided the P/N.

You know as well as anybody that corrosion/electrolysis issues can be a ###### to track down and correct. Seems to be relatively cheap insurance.

The higher issues with Yammis may be because of the high number of Yammi rigged boats out there these days...