"New" Boat Defects

[bly]

I should have added to my post above , When buying a boat one should hire a Survey done before buying [ New or used ].

In non destructive testing Nothing will find air between skin coat and gelcoat. You have to tap the whole boat with a putty knife to find. Most owners of boats dont want someone tapping their whole boat with a hard piece of metal. A moisture meter will only find the void if water is in it.

[Edge]

Actually, there are several NDI technologies that will detect voids and delaminations. These methods (technoloiges) include: ultrasonic, Phased Array (PE), Scanning Acoustic Microscopy (SAM), Thermography, and good old fashioned xrays.

I'm not sure about the cost effectivity in the marine world. Not all flaws need to be repaired or found.

The thread on the "other forum" is actually quite tame compared to similar there..

I should have added to my post above , When buying a boat one should hire a Survey done before buying [ New or used ].

In non destructive testing Nothing will find air between skin coat and gelcoat. You have to tap the whole boat with a putty knife to find. Most owners of boats dont want someone tapping their whole boat with a hard piece of metal. A moisture meter will only find the void if water is in it.

[Chisox]

The thread on the "other forum" is actually quite tame compared to similar there..

You are quite correct in this observation...

Gave them this to pore over:

http://www.masepoxies.com/users/0142...e%20Areas2.pdf

This gives you an idea, if indeed they are using Flex-mold. Looks the same as what we use, especially in mold/plug building.

My expertise is in electrical/mechanical. But after 15 years, and a good portion of that at the engineering end, I've learned a bit. Read, and enjoy. Sounds like your builder not only knows what they are doing, but wants you as a happy customer as well!

Hope it educates, and serves him well...

[jets]

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

I'm sure most of you have noticed the thread on the other site about the guy who had a quarter sized "defect" in his non-skid on the foredeck, and it has morphed into 3 pages of whatever, opinions, rants, explanations, etc.

You guys know who I work for, you also know that I've worked for several major builders over the last 15 years, therefore this type of defect, albeit not fun to deal with, is also part of the "process", due to the human element of boat building.

Wiley, Ludicrous, Auguste, ScarabChris, Welder, Blue Bayou, etc., what would you guys think if you took possession of your new boat and found a defect in the deck/hull? I remember when I took delivery of my '87 Maxima and, at 1800 miles, noticed a slight slipping in the tranny at about 70-75 MPH (yeah, I used to speed back then!). Took it back to Reed Nissan in Orlando, and it was found that some "plate" in the tranny was installed backwards from the tranny supplier in Japan (say all you want...) and the result was a new tranny at God knows what their cost.

I know you guys are members over there, and have seen this thread. What do you think?

BTW, just had to post on Reel Boating's new format...Totally Cool!

Bob C

It's a double edged sword, dammed if you do, same if you don't. Boat builder finds defect and repairs it, owner complaints he wasn't consulted before doing repairs. On the other hand, if they didn't do the repair, then the complaint would have been something like 'builder had boat in the factory for x amount of time and didn't notice defect...' Can't win either way... Seems to me the builder in question is doing the right thing, may be a little better communication would have helped.

[Ludicrous]

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

I'm sure most of you have noticed the thread on the other site about the guy who had a quarter sized "defect" in his non-skid on the foredeck, and it has morphed into 3 pages of whatever, opinions, rants, explanations, etc.

You guys know who I work for, you also know that I've worked for several major builders over the last 15 years, therefore this type of defect, albeit not fun to deal with, is also part of the "process", due to the human element of boat building.

Wiley, Ludicrous, Auguste, ScarabChris, Welder, Blue Bayou, etc., what would you guys think if you took possession of your new boat and found a defect in the deck/hull? I remember when I took delivery of my '87 Maxima and, at 1800 miles, noticed a slight slipping in the tranny at about 70-75 MPH (yeah, I used to speed back then!). Took it back to Reed Nissan in Orlando, and it was found that some "plate" in the tranny was installed backwards from the tranny supplier in Japan (say all you want...) and the result was a new tranny at God knows what their cost.

I know you guys are members over there, and have seen this thread. What do you think?

BTW, just had to post on Reel Boating's new format...Totally Cool!

Bob C

Bob, if I went into any detail I would be run out of the boat shows. I'd like to just mention MOLD PREP though.....many "high tier" builders spend more time fixing gel coat than they should. Cool.....one, two three spots on a hull side, BUT 20-30???? Good grief. And it (the fix) can be done to fool the eye...but some manufactures don't even give it much of an effort. Only "trained eyes" can pick this stuff up....guys like me who have painted cars for 25 years. I find it amusing that many "low tier" get it right and the JDBDMD Powwers certified (name altered to protect me and my family) can't.

Carry on.

[Chisox]

I'd like to just mention MOLD PREP though.....

Back in my Wellcraft days, ahen the 29/32/35 Scarab Sports were introduced, the 32 had a bad mold mark on the non-skid on the forepeak, port side just aft the anchor locker hatch. The finishers would spend hours on each deck trying to fix it, to get the repair to blend in. We often asked our selves why they just didn't pull the mold into mold maintenance, fix it, and solve the problem forever. "Can't pull the mold off the line, demand is too high..."

I suppose now, they have tons of time...

[Edge]

I'd like to just mention MOLD PREP though.....

Back in my Wellcraft days, ahen the 29/32/35 Scarab Sports were introduced, the 32 had a bad mold mark on the non-skid on the forepeak, port side just aft the anchor locker hatch. The finishers would spend hours on each deck trying to fix it, to get the repair to blend in. We often asked our selves why they just didn't pull the mold into mold maintenance, fix it, and solve the problem forever. "Can't pull the mold off the line, demand is too high..."

I suppose now, they have tons of time...

This is a classic engineering and manufacturing senario. Seems organizations have the time to fix or repair a problem than to to just get it right the first time.

Management problem - very short sighted (like bankers)...

[Blue Bayou]

Hey Bob,

Sorry for the delayed response.

As far as new boats and repairing gelcoat and other defects from manufacturing completely under warranty, that is what I expect for the entire balance of my 10 year hull warranty. There have already been a few areas where the hard top was not properly mounted in a few areas and it cracked some gelcoat. Took the boat to Invincible and they fixed it up no questions asked. With anything that is not my fault (I don't ask them to fix a gelcoat ding from a 6oz. lead), I look to the manufacturer to take care of it. My boat was advertised to me as one of the strongest and toughest built boats in the world so I uphold that word to the owner of the company to honor my hull warranty if any defects arise.

Any buyer of any new boat should be entitled to have defects fixed under their hull warranty. No questions asked. There should never be any questions from the manufacturer when it comes to fixing these problems. Invincible got a check well north of $200,000 for the BB, they better damn well fix anything that I am not happy with...and thus far they have been fantastic. This is the best boat I've ever owned and I'm happy to say it's the best boat I've ever been on.

When it comes to the next boat, customer service is the #1 factor that I consider because the last thing I do is give money to a bunch of clowns.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Blue Bayou