Erie Skipper

Well said. Can you imagine what we might have gone through on stringer issues alone in the old days? Every builder has has issues at one time or another; what makes the difference is how both the dealer and the builder go about handling the issues. In the case on tht and elsewhere it appears communications broke down early on and went worse from there. It's too bad that things weren't handled better from the beginning. Now it seems to be out of control and has developed a life of its own online. Not good for either party.

Single engine 20-30' boats on Lake Erie still seem to be what is selling--most still used or new boats that are leftover and well discounted. Larger over 30' boats have seen an uptick since the first of the year, especially cruisers and fish boats with nice cabins such as Amberjacks. I do believe sales are very location specific right now.

I realize this has less to do with dealers then it does the manufacturers, but this is one of the biggest problems that I see facing the recreational boating industry today, where much like the health insurance industry cross market competition is all but removed from the equation. Unfortunately, this creates a vacuum for these dealers to operate within. As a result, customers deal with poor customer service, often inflated non negotiable pricing, etc, because the dealers know a customer has very few options if they want a particular boat. What happened to free market enterprise??? If a customer who lives in Virginia finds the boat they want at a dealer in Rhode Island at a better price then the one in Virginia, then the customer should have the right to buy the boat in Rhode Island, no questions asked. I agree; and in the last 12 months I think this continuum has changed in favor of the dealers as we are much more concerned with selling our product in a down market than keeping our builders happy. They, in turn, aren't nearly as concerned with rules as they are getting their production lines back running--I'm thinking the tide has changed and locality will mean little going forward--and that is better for all concerned.

Just to point out one issue dealers all face, we can't post prices on current model year new product--most builders just won't allow it. You can go to most builders sites and build a boat for yourself with sticker pricing included. I agree that "call for pricing" is probably a mistake; but it is one way of getting people to call just so the dealer can get a handle on just what it is the buyer really wants. For instance, I have had people call on a bow rider and end up buying a pocket cruiser instead. Effective communications between buyers and dealers is super important.

Nope, no relationship with Everglades. Dealer regionality varies from builder to builder and is rarely enforced if ever. And if a product is a non-current, in my experience all bets are off and the dealer can do whatever he wants with it and sell it to whomever, wherever.

Yep, got called out on a stock photo today by a potential buyer and fixed it right away. As dealers, our websites must be monitored daily and updated very frequently. Sadly, some of the lesser known boat for sale websites don't remove products nearly as quickly as we ask them to. Aggravating for everyone when that happens. I also agree that pricing up front is very important.

Thanks Lester, good stuff. My hope is that dealers and salespeople who monitor this sight might benefit from the type of input that you and Wiley have started with herein. Thanks for the responses and hopefully they'll keep coming.

After many years in the business, I never tire of hearing constructive criticism. What can boat dealers do better to make the buying experience easier for you? Not looking for bashing or dealer names; just general input from the buying public as to how we as dealers can do our jobs a little better. Are websites adequate, facilities complete, deliveries done well, etc?

According to clevelandboatshow.com free admission on Tuesday if you take food to the show; typically a slow night and a good time to go; starts at 3 I think most weekdays, but check the website You can also buy tickets online and boat us members get a 2.00 discount for buying online

I think you're right. Internet action has already been pretty amazing for this time of year. Stop by and say hi; hope we all do well.

Check for discounts at the boatohio website, or clevelandboatshow.com I'm sure there are some specials available Show will be smaller than normal, but great deals all around and more used boats than in days gone by Hope to see you there

Just a heads up for those of you in or near the area; the Cleveland Boat Show will be held as always at the IX Center near Hopkins Airport starting Jan 15 and running through the 24th. Hoping for great weather and good attendance to start the new decade; and hope to see you all there!

20 sounds about right to me considering the equipment and power; should sell easily for you

We used to call that "sloppy seconds"... Damn, hope the wife doesn't read this...MAYBE THAT'S WHAT TIGER SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT!!! Each time I see a picture of one of his girlfriends I feel a little worse for him; poor fella!

A 2009 for that kind of money sounds pretty reasonable to me; especially with full warranties. Optimax engines are fine and will last a long time and I agree with the statements about the very good fuel economy, plus I would expect 45-50 mph top end. Someone will pay 95ish for that particular boat if you won't would be my guess.

FYI I have never ever heard of needing a survey on a boat in order to procure financing; and insurance companies only require a survey if over 10 years old. Your boat has a long and fine warranty and if you are dealing with a well known and respectable dealer. I think you are throwing money away by hiring a surveyor on this one.

I like all four for different reasons. Striper and Proline are the best built; but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the other two. Whichever one you can buy right and has the right layout and set up for your use.

Great marketing concept; we've been doing it for years. It's called using enough mark up so that you can show more dollars for a trade. Nothing new here, but a definite A for effort to the dealer from a marketing standpoint.

It really is the old story of those who choose to do business will do business, rust belt or not, and others will continue to live on the edge of success whether the market is good or shaky. Is business great? No. Are we doing better than we anticipated this year? Yes and it is because we are doing whatever it takes, within reason of course, to make sales and to be accommodating for the buyers--and yes there are plenty of buyers if you have the right things in stock. Sure it has been frustrating, but then it was frustrating in the early eighties and the early nineties and we lived through all that. This is just one more test of whether a business is healthy or not; and those that are will survive like always.

Understand your situation and wish you continued success; and I hope you establish a dealer network one day.

Welcome back; glad for you, glad for Pro-line.

And there are many examples of builders selling factory direct, upsetting their dealer base, and going out of business--ever hear of Skiffcraft? Factories don't do service, storage, parts, glass work or any type of needed service. If they start, they will no longer be just builders now will they? I suspect your factory direct company will fall by the wayside sooner or later as well, or they will remain very small at best.

Brokers and dealers don't need to rant. THey just need to understand the market and adjust their pricing, and buying, accordingly. There is still money to be made in a down market and the boat selling market is not as down as most think. Some areas are doing quite well.

I say again, a 350 mag in this boat should be fine if you are propped correctly No it doesnt need twins, and at 8 1/2 beam couldnt even stuff v-6's in there. With the lift of the duo prop and 300 hp, you should expect a top end in the range of 35 mph with an average load. I'm sure if you consult Sea Ray, they will rate it at least that fast. Is you boat bottom fouled? You'll lose at least 10-20% that way. Give us some more input. Were you wide open, did you trim the drive properly? We need to know more in order to help you.

yep, what egg said...