Frustrating Continung Water-in-fuel Issue

[BMarkey]

I would appreciate some advice regarding a continuing, frustrating water-in-gas issue.

My year 2000 115 Johnson's plastic, permanent gas (Wellcraft 190 Fisherman) tank became mostly filled with water (some gas) after a huge rain storm, because I had left the deck cap off and was in the middle of replacing the fuel sending unit. I pumped out what I thought was all the water in the gas and refilled. The engine ran fine after draining the carbs - until I water tested it and the boat tried to plane. I guess the remaining water settled to the bottom rear of the tank and was picked up by the pickup tube. Not successful.

Next, I drained the tank completely - after placing the boat on a sharp angle to force all liquid to the rear - and added a few gallons of fresh gas. Again, the engine ran fine on the hose and at the ramp, but I still had the water issue while trying to plane.

Then I went into the tank through the top-sending unit hole and sucked what little else was in there using a copper tube attached to a siphon hose, attached to a primer bulb. I stuck pieces of towel in there and mopped up what I could see that was left.

We rebuilt the carbs, changed the fuel filter several times and added a few gallons of fresh ethanol gas. Success! I then added 6 gallons of non-ethanol gas (at a marina, at $4 per gallon) and had a great day on the water.

Friday, confident the problem was behind me, I added around 9 more gallons - this time from Wal-Mart (ethanol) and took the boat out. It ran great, until I tried to plane it and had the same issue. I pumped out the tank again and found a gallon or more of water in there. At least I think it was water. The substance appears whitish/cloudy and sits at the bottom of the gallon milk jug into which I siphoned each gallon. The gas is yellowish and rises to the top.

So, water is getting in (is in there somehow), but how?! The sides/bottom of the tank do not leak because gas does not leak when I add it. The vent has been the same and the boat has been used and stored the same for eight years. I see/smell no gas in the bilge.

The deck cap above the sending unit is old and the boat has a closed transom, so water does build up around the deck cap for short periods of time during/after rain and when cleaning. Water could be getting onto the top of the flattop tank. We had a lot of rain the night before my latest disastrous water test.

Could water be leaking through the deck cap (old O-ring) onto the sending unit, which is properly installed but old (maybe a bad gasket)? Could the top of the plastic tank have a crack (unlikely?) and be letting rain/wash water drip down into the tank? Wouldn't that be the least likely place for a leak?

I am frustrated beyond belief - especially after rebuilding the carbs and doing a complete tune-up.

If it's the tank, How much am I looking at to have the 60-gallon tank cut out (easy to access) of the deck, replaced and re-glassed? I am in Southeast Florida.

Thanks, all.

Update: I bought a portable tank and filled it with ethanol gas and ran it to the engine, via the water separator. I had no trouble with the engine on Sunday. So, it's not a motor issue.

For the first time, though, I smelled gas. I figured it was because of the portable tank or the bilge (in which I had spilled a little gas while changing the fuel filter). Then I opened the floor hatch just in front of the center console and got a strong smell of gas from there. That area is well forward of the gas tank and fuel lines. I guess there is some gas in the hull that hasn't made its way out yet. The boat allows drainage to the front when hooked to my truck.

I put 3 1/2 gallons of gas in the inboard tank with the thought that I would try using it today, but we were having fun and I did not switch to the inboard tank. I will siphon out that gas and see if all the gas is still there. If there is a leak in the lower part of the tank, it's a small one.

I would appreciate references on people who will cut out my tank and replace and re-glass it.

[njterrier]

I had a similar problem last year. I was getting water in my fuel tank via the fill "vent". Make sure that the vent is facing aft at a down-ward angle. Turned out that my vent some-how was facing forward and up. I was taking in some water when cutting into larger waves, and when it would rain.

I also had to drain my 60 gallon tank, and kept changing my in-line 10-micron fuel filters. I have been trouble free since.

Scott

[BMarkey]

I had a similar problem last year. I was getting water in my fuel tank via the fill "vent". Make sure that the vent is facing aft at a down-ward angle. Turned out that my vent some-how was facing forward and up. I was taking in some water when cutting into larger waves, and when it would rain.

I also had to drain my 60 gallon tank, and kept changing my in-line 10-micron fuel filters. I have been trouble free since.

Scott

I have changed my 10-micron filter numerous times. The vent is as it has always been (10 years), but it is not angled and does not have protection. I need to have the tank tested, if that is even possible.

[steiger25]

I would appreciate some advice regarding a continuing, frustrating water-in-gas issue.

My year 2000 115 Johnson's plastic, permanent gas (Wellcraft 190 Fisherman) tank became mostly filled with water (some gas) after a huge rain storm, because I had left the deck cap off and was in the middle of replacing the fuel sending unit. I pumped out what I thought was all the water in the gas and refilled. The engine ran fine after draining the carbs - until I water tested it and the boat tried to plane. I guess the remaining water settled to the bottom rear of the tank and was picked up by the pickup tube. Not successful.

Next, I drained the tank completely - after placing the boat on a sharp angle to force all liquid to the rear - and added a few gallons of fresh gas. Again, the engine ran fine on the hose and at the ramp, but I still had the water issue while trying to plane.

Then I went into the tank through the top-sending unit hole and sucked what little else was in there using a copper tube attached to a siphon hose, attached to a primer bulb. I stuck pieces of towel in there and mopped up what I could see that was left.

We rebuilt the carbs, changed the fuel filter several times and added a few gallons of fresh ethanol gas. Success! I then added 6 gallons of non-ethanol gas (at a marina, at $4 per gallon) and had a great day on the water.

Friday, confident the problem was behind me, I added around 9 more gallons - this time from Wal-Mart (ethanol) and took the boat out. It ran great, until I tried to plane it and had the same issue. I pumped out the tank again and found a gallon or more of water in there. At least I think it was water. The substance appears whitish/cloudy and sits at the bottom of the gallon milk jug into which I siphoned each gallon. The gas is yellowish and rises to the top.

So, water is getting in (is in there somehow), but how?! The sides/bottom of the tank do not leak because gas does not leak when I add it. The vent has been the same and the boat has been used and stored the same for eight years. I see/smell no gas in the bilge.

The deck cap above the sending unit is old and the boat has a closed transom, so water does build up around the deck cap for short periods of time during/after rain and when cleaning. Water could be getting onto the top of the flattop tank. We had a lot of rain the night before my latest disastrous water test.

Could water be leaking through the deck cap (old O-ring) onto the sending unit, which is properly installed but old (maybe a bad gasket)? Could the top of the plastic tank have a crack (unlikely?) and be letting rain/wash water drip down into the tank? Wouldn't that be the least likely place for a leak?

I am frustrated beyond belief - especially after rebuilding the carbs and doing a complete tune-up.

If it's the tank, How much am I looking at to have the 60-gallon tank cut out (easy to access) of the deck, replaced and re-glassed? I am in Southeast Florida.

Thanks, all.

Update: I bought a portable tank and filled it with ethanol gas and ran it to the engine, via the water separator. I had no trouble with the engine on Sunday. So, it's not a motor issue.

For the first time, though, I smelled gas. I figured it was because of the portable tank or the bilge (in which I had spilled a little gas while changing the fuel filter). Then I opened the floor hatch just in front of the center console and got a strong smell of gas from there. That area is well forward of the gas tank and fuel lines. I guess there is some gas in the hull that hasn't made its way out yet. The boat allows drainage to the front when hooked to my truck.

I put 3 1/2 gallons of gas in the inboard tank with the thought that I would try using it today, but we were having fun and I did not switch to the inboard tank. I will siphon out that gas and see if all the gas is still there. If there is a leak in the lower part of the tank, it's a small one.

I would appreciate references on people who will cut out my tank and replace and re-glass it.

I have heard it is not wise to mix ethanol and non ethanol gas.

[Cooter]

I too was getting water in my tank through the vent tube. I resolved the problem by putting a loop in the tube above the level of the vent hole. That way if water did come in the vent it would run back out instead of flowing to the tank.

[butler1227]

Here is your answer. www.k100fueltreatment.com

My link

I too was getting water in my tank through the vent tube. I resolved the problem by putting a loop in the tube above the level of the vent hole. That way if water did come in the vent it would run back out instead of flowing to the tank.

[Cracker Larry]

Friday, confident the problem was behind me, I added around 9 more gallons - this time from Wal-Mart (ethanol) and took the boat out. It ran great, until I tried to plane it and had the same issue. I pumped out the tank again and found a gallon or more of water in there. At least I think it was water. The substance appears whitish/cloudy and sits at the bottom of the gallon milk jug into which I siphoned each gallon. The gas is yellowish and rises to the top.

That sure sounds like water, maybe you got some bad gas from Walmart? I would separate the water from the gas and taste the water. Is it salt or fresh? If salt, it's probably getting in through the vent fitting. If fresh, then rain or washdown water.

Could water be leaking through the deck cap (old O-ring) onto the sending unit, which is properly installed but old (maybe a bad gasket)? Could the top of the plastic tank have a crack (unlikely?) and be letting rain/wash water drip down into the tank? Wouldn't that be the least likely place for a leak?

I think it's highly unlikely that the sending unit gasket could allow gallons of water in the tank. If the gasket was that bad, it would be leaking fuel. Same for a crack in the top.

The vent is as it has always been (10 years), but it is not angled and does not have protection. I need to have the tank tested, if that is even possible

The vent fitting is the most likely source, as mentioned above. Testing the tank is fairly easy. Remove the fill and vent lines from the hull fittings, not the tank, plug them with a tapered wooden plug and a hose clamp. Connect a small compressor or hand pump to the fuel feed line and pressurize the entire system to 4 psi. It should hold 4 psi for 24 hours, but a leak of the magnitude that you speak of should be instantly apparent when you pressurize the system.

Here is your answer. www.k100fueltreatment.com

No, the answer is to stop the water from getting in

[BMarkey]

Before assuming the tank was bad (might still be), we tested the deck cap (plate?) above the sending unit (between the center console and the stern) and found that a small drip of water was making it through the seal, right onto the sending unit.

Mine is the push-in type. Water was getting in between two of the screws, perfectly hitting the edge of the sending unit below.

The water (from rain or wash-down) would then pool around the sending unit gasket. I assume (and hope) that was the source of the problem. I replaced the sending unit and gasket, and last night, removed the deck cap and sealed it with silicone. I jacked the boat up very high to forced any water to the rear and the boat ran great on the main tank. I'll water test it today.

BTW, I discovered my tank does not have a vent; only a vented cap.

My fingers are crossed.

[Guest edgewater225]

No additive can solve this problem. That much water is not going to come out without a fight.

Star Tron does help remove water from fuel, but that would be water that is a result of condensation, not a gaping leak that allows gallons of water to enter the tank. You could add an emulsifier, but that causes more problems: you need to know exactly how much water is in the tank because emulsifiers work on a 1 to 1 ratio (1 oz of product treats 1 oz of water), they do NOT remove water but rather emulsify it - which means it will cause lumps of goo to get into the engine, making it run rough if at all, they will take the fuel out of spec, putting your warranty at risk, and, worse of all, many emulsifiers use alcohol as the emulsifying agent, which you do not want to add to E10 fuel.

Find the leak and fix it. Pump out the fuel and start over. There are mobile fuel polishers that can salvage the fuel. Call your local Marine Industries Association for a referral.

Bill

quote name='BMarkey' date='14 May 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1273847038' post='33115']

Before assuming the tank was bad (might still be), we tested the deck cap (plate?) above the sending unit (between the center console and the stern) and found that a small drip of water was making it through the seal, right onto the sending unit.

Mine is the push-in type. Water was getting in between two of the screws, perfectly hitting the edge of the sending unit below.

The water (from rain or wash-down) would then pool around the sending unit gasket. I assume (and hope) that was the source of the problem. I replaced the sending unit and gasket, and last night, removed the deck cap and sealed it with silicone. I jacked the boat up very high to forced any water to the rear and the boat ran great on the main tank. I'll water test it today.

BTW, I discovered my tank does not have a vent; only a vented cap.

My fingers are crossed.

Edited May 26, 2010 by edgewater225

[mrrobalo]

Not knowing the boat but I have 3 boats in the water that are on lifts. I run into fuel problem constantly now. PoPs has lived on a Island for 30 years and these last 3 years we have had constant water issues to.

PoPs joke that I must have put Velcro on the carburetors as I can R/R then in a little over a hour on the boats as I have done them so often. I have a old OMC primer gas pump that I use to clean the tank and get the water out. I use a 10 micron filters now (ones mounted on the boats)and replaced ALL the fuel lines too. So If I were you I would get a pump and what I do is empty the tank down to less than 5 gal . Once done I hook a separate fuel line up to the out side of the filter and run it right back in the tank. Once securely attached I will let it run while tinkering on the boat and trailer for a hour shaking the rig to move any debris in the tank. However the filter will clog if water is in it. You will need to remove the liquid from the filter and reinstall it and let it run again until it goes the hour without clogging. I put the used liquid in a gallon glass pickle jar so it is easy to examine it.

This might not answer where it is coming from but it's a start.

This may sound like a shade-tree mechanic trick but I have done this for years and have done quite a few fishing buddy's boats with great results. I was in the marine business for a long time and learned a lot from others. I also use the conditioners all the time and we carry gas over in a 5 gal container for both the 2 and 4 strokes.

One other thought just came to mind. How old is the boat ? I tell members of my forum that if they are older than 6 years REPLACE them as the ethanol will deteriorate them from the inside out and thats where the water could definitely be coming in. Think about it they are all under the floor and prone to water invasion.

Not trying to come over as a know it all just giving you ideas that I have had to find out on my own. Good luck and keep me posted as it has my curiosity wondering.