Can't get 115 Johnson running - fuel issue

[BMarkey]

I have a year 2000 115 Johnson with relatively low hours. It will not run after several months of sitting idle. I would appreciate suggestions on how to fix the issue.

Here is the story ...

I did not properly seal the deck cap above the gas tank recently after installing a new fuel sending unit. Then came the monsoon rains for two days here in SoFla. My CC's closed transom became filled with water when the scuppers clogged. (Stupid, I know.) The water built up and drained right into the gas tank through the deck cap, overflowing the tank. I discovered the mess when the dog came into the house smelling like gas after playing near the stern.

I drained the tank as much as possible with a siphon hose, then added SeaFoam and 25 or so gallons of fresh gas. I replaced the Sierra fuel filter and spark plugs. The engine never ran when water was in the tank.

For two days, I could not get the engine to do more than sputter and most of the time it would seem to not get any gas. I pump and pump and pump the primer bulb. Once it got hard and the rest of the time is gets stiffer but still allows me to pump it and I hear gas going to the engine. No matter how much I pump, it does not completely fill.

I have removed and emptied the Sierra filter (no clear bulb) several times. I then add fresh gas to the filter.

I found a little screen filter inside a white cap I unscrewed from the front of the engine. It appears to be where the gas line enters the engine. The filter seemed fine.

I checked the fuel lines as best I could to check for leaks, etc. Nothing found.

Noon Update: The primer bulb will just not get solid like it used to get. I jiggled the lines, checked them out as best I could and pumped like hell, but the best it gets is a little hard, with the ability to still squeeze gas through it.

I did get the engine to sputter, then run very, very roughly. It only runs when I manually jigger the throttle on top of the engine, and even then, I can only keep it running for around a minute. I was getting the RPMs to around 1,000. Now I can get them to around 1800, but that's it. The engine will not rev faster than that.

Nasty black goo is coming out of the bottom of the outdrive. The engine had not run for several months before this.

When I was pumping the primer ball, I did notice fuel coming out of the bottom left cylindrical opening. Carb exhaust? ???

So, should I just continue pumping and babying it? Should I buy some sort of "dry gas" or carb cleaner to add to the gas? Is it easy to open up the carbs and shot gas into them? Should I fill the tank with good gas to make sure the gas/leftover water mix is overwhelmingly gas? Should I continue to empty and refill the Sierra filter? Will the engine eventually recover and run on its own?

What does this red lever and valve do? I bled the valve and fuel came out.

I plan to take the outboard motor service and maintenance class at SouthTech Academy starting this week in Boynton Beach. I guess I have a great practice subject.

Thanks for any advice.

Edited April 3, 2010 by BMarkey

[crash1371]

Wow sorry I can't help but I'am wishing you the best

[BMarkey]

Thanks ...

1 p.m. Update: The engine would not top 1900 RPM. Even when I kept it running with the throttle-jiggering thing atop the engine, it was rough and slow.

The primer bulb was still only half full, so I started pumping it while the engine was running. The engine responded by revving up to 2500 RPM and sounding pretty normal. I got it to rev and run pretty smoothly from the helm control. I thought I was getting out of the woods ... then ... the engine died and now it's acting like it has no gas, again.

I can hear the gas going into the carb when I squeeze the primer bulb, but it doesn't completely fill and now I'm back to square one with no start at all. UGH!

Another stupid question: Does the gas tank have to be air tight? When I installed the new sending unit, I tightened down the nuts from the sending unit top into the plastic gas tank and some of the foam-like O-ring/washer thing came out to one side. Probably no big thing, but I thought I'd ask.

I wonder whether I should take off the fuel filter and fill it again.

[Sandy]

I believe the red lever is the optional manual override primer valve on the primer solenoid. One way it either primes when you push the ign key (?) in or maybe automatically at start position . The other way allows you to manually choke at the engine .(or prime with bulb?) So that could be your problem with attempting to manually prime or keep it running. It would be in your owner's manual if you have one, otherwise maybe someone else here can tell you which way is which , or just try it the other way . After starting in the manual position if desired, that lever has to be returned to the normal run position for proper running. If you figure it out make sure you clearly label it for run or manual choke position. If that doesn't work here are some other suggestions:

If you pump and pump the bulb and it never firms up with engine off (and fuel is not running out of the throttle body) , the usual problems are

Bad bulb with missing or not closing valve flap, or cracked bulb

Air getting into the fuel line before the bulb, from bad external filter/separator seal, loose hose or tank connection, cracked or dropped off tank pickup tube.

Air getting into the tank from the sender gasket deformation would not cause this since the tank has to be vented anyway, but it's obviously a dangerous situation since if air could get in there, gas and fumes can get out in the boat. Fix it.

While air or bad bulb is more likely, it could be an a fuel restriction upstream of the bulb but that would usually cause the bulb to stay squished.

If fuel was running out the air intakes I'd think either stuck open float. Higher running rpms while pumping sound more like bad fuel pump.

Edit: I just checked an old manual for a '87 225 Johnson that had the manaul override valve on the primer solenoid. FWIW, it shows manual start position os counter clockwise and run position is clockwise on that lever.

Also I forgot to mention that valve lever and schraeder valve you released fuel from are used when injecting engine tuner(cleaner) and possibly when fogging with pressurized cannisters and a hose with connector for the schraeder.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Little Katuna

[BMarkey]

Thanks so much.

Your fuel pump comment worries me. It could be bad but still working? Ugh.

Here are some more details.

- I removed and replaced the Sierra filter (10-micron but without the water collector "bulb" thing) several times, each time dumping the fuel out of it and refilling it with fresh gas. It sounds like I wasted my time there.

- The engine only ran reasonable smoothly at the higher RPM. I was able to rev it up past 2000 RPM a couple of times, only after pumping the primer bulb. Some gas was coming through the bulb/line, but the line only a few times (when I kinked the hose) got stiff, then would go flat again.

When I was able to gas gas to pump through the primer bulb, at times has would flow out of the lower left carb and into the engine housing.

- I removed and reseated the sending unit. The gasket is fine. It is tight enough and wont leak any gas. I think I might have the wires crossed because the tank reads full and it is at best 1/4 full.

- I am headed out to buy a real Racor now, but West Marine doesn't have one for my engine.

- Here is the deal. I cannot get the primer bulb to get hard much if at all. Right now, no amount of pumping works. The engine will now once again not start. It acts like it is not getting gas. When I would pump the bulb, I would see some gas coming through and I could even see it enter the engine where the fuel line is attached to the front of the motor. Some would leak out of the carb.

But now, I cannot get the bulb to pump any gas. I cannot find any leak of gas through the lines from the tank to the motor mount area to the motor. I wonder of there is an air leak that is causing the primer bulb to fail, or is the bulb just bad, or are one of the fuel lines bad. I plan to buy a new primer bulb (no obvious cracks) and try that first. if a fuel line has a tiny leak of air, would that cause the problem? I see no gas leak in the lines.

I added more gas to the tank and checked to make sure it was not dry or had a leak. It seems fine.

The best the engine ran was when I kept it running with one hand on the throttle and another pumping the bulb. I had it running for around 20 minutes. Now nothing.

I wonder whether I had a fuel quality problem and now have developed a primer bulb and/or fuel line problem. Both are around 10 years old.

Thanks.

[Fishkkook54]

x

Edited April 4, 2010 by Fishkkook54

[Cracker Larry]

Primer bulbs are notorious for that. I'd replace it first. Also, if the fuel fitting to the engine is a snap on type with an O ring seal, that is also a likely culprit.

Bad bulb with missing or not closing valve flap, or cracked bulb

Air getting into the fuel line before the bulb, from bad external filter/separator seal, loose hose or tank connection, cracked or dropped off tank pickup tube.

Air getting into the tank from the sender gasket deformation would not cause this since the tank has to be vented anyway, but it's obviously a dangerous situation since if air could get in there, gas and fumes can get out in the boat. Fix it.

While air or bad bulb is more likely, it could be an a fuel restriction upstream of the bulb but that would usually cause the bulb to stay squished

What he said

[Sandy]

Since you just replaced your tank sender , I wonder if you either have a shorted circuit to neg. ground (bypassing the sender)if it is a USA/"std" gauge sender combo, or open sender to ground circuit if Euro type , or perhaps you paired one type of sender ( USA /"std" OR Euro/ metric ohms range ) with the opposite type gauge- that's a common error. . Both USA & Euro types are used in boats over here, but must be matched since the USA ohms range is approx 240 empty to 33 full, and Euro goes the opposite direction at approx. 10 ohms empty to 180 full.

(To complicate things a little further, gauges at dual stations employ a sender w/ approx 1/2 the ohms. Also, there are at least 2 senders (both no-moving-parts, capacitance-tube type,.. Centroid Products tank sender is one of them) that can sense water in the tank and will indicate that by having the gauge read overfull & stay that way until the water is removed no matter what the fluid level. )

No mater what make yours are, Faria has some good gauge/sender trouble-shooting info that should help:

http://faria-instruments.com/site_manuals/IS0085E.pdf

http://faria-instruments.com/site_manuals/IS0100_ApxVII.pdf

http://faria-instruments.com/site_manuals/IS0100_MiscGauges.pdf

You can check yours with a multimeter.

Try removing the hose from the bulb on the engine side, then see if you can pump a solid stream of fuel into a safe container. If so, you can probably rule out anything upstream toward the tank and concentrate on fuel pump and float valve possibilities. Sometimes bulbs need to be in reverse attitude, with outlet down , to pull fuel up to it. If the bulb is old, suggest just replace it with a new good one.

But 1st I'd make really sure the primer/choke lever was in the correct position and that the plugs were not wet from all this pumping and cranking. You might also carefully set the end of a wooden block against the side of carbs and whack it to see if a stuck open float valve will fall into place and let you pump up without flowing out the throats.

No pro here, just making suggestions.

Another consideration is that after all this pumping it's possible there is a lot of liquid gas in the bottom of your engine, so with charged battery & sp.plugs out and and plug cables carefully grounded you might crank the engine to see if anything in there will flush. Don't crank very long at one time without letting the starter cool down even with no compression.

[BMarkey]

Wow. More good advice. I now wonder about a stuck choke valve. Here is the latest.

I did get a new primer bulb. Not the problem. I also replaced the hose between the primer bulb and engine. After that, fuel started coming through the line and into the engine, but again, only some fuel and the bulb would not get solid.

Then I lifted the entire bulb/hose assembly while pumping and when the part of the hose between the bulb and fuel filter bent, the bulb suddenly got solid. So, maybe that section of hose has a slight crack (not enough for gas to leak, but enough to keep proper suction from happening)? I guess I can replace that section as well, but that will require running hose into the stern and up to the "out" port of the fuel filter. It won't be easy. It's difficult to get to.

Anyway, when the bulb got solid, the engine started right up and ran roughly but for a few minutes. The it died again and would not start no matter what I did, and the bulb was still full.

So, I guess I have some sort of engine/carb problem and a fuel line problem? What a mess.

[gwdriver]

That valve with the red lever is where you screw on a can of OMC Evinrude Engine Tuner to decarb the engine.