My Take on the Boating Industry

[Chisox]

Well, I bought one of those 35' CC and I love it. Unfortunately, I am a contractor and the economy hurt pretty good. I can't really afford to get rid of her due to the depreciation.

Oh, it does hurt to fill her up. Everybody chips in for the fuel. We will be back on the tournament trail soon.

I love them too...and god willing this economy can get back to somewhere around what we would consider "normal"...

Cheers!, Team Old School!

[Tavana]

Wiley,

I am wondering where you see the need for speed going. Related to this, what about diesel compared to outboard configurations. I sense there is a very sharp age demographic involved here, how about you?

[wiley]

I must be getting jaded... I saw some 30+' boats with twins on the back, and that huge 39 Intrepid with "just" triples and immediately thought both we're underpowered.... just by looking at them.

We're in an outboard world down here. All I know is my old heavy 28 Hydrasport walkaround did 50mph with "just" twin 250's and I went plenty fast for my liking. Just depends on how quickly you want to get to Bimini or West End.

I did notice a lot of boats you expected trips on had twins... and the ones you expect twins went with the singles.

[boatdesigner]

As someone who has been making a living designing boats for over 2 decades (some of you own boats I designed), I have been quite surprised by the lack of interest in more efficient boats. I see a 200 hp OB on a 20' boat and think it has double the power it should need. Are there people interested in 20' boats that can run 35 knots with 100 hp? How about a 25' CC that runs well with a 150?

How often does the average boater get to run at 50+ knots in a small boat? Most places are either too crowded or too choppy to run comfortably at high speeds. I really thought that the relatively high costs of fuel, combined with the lower incomes most of us are experiencing would have created a market for inexpensive (not necessarily small or low quality) boats.

My vision is basically "back to the future". Boats like the original 20' Seacraft or the old Mako 25. These boats had relatively narrow beams and were pretty simple. They were and still are seaworthy designs that could take a family out fishing for a day. They would be less expensive to build, own and power while still getting you out on the water.

I didn't make it to the boat show, but I have seen absolutely nothing from any major manufacturer that says to me they have a vision for a less expensive, more efficient future. That is the thing that troubles me the most, the attitude that the world is the same now as it was 2 years ago and it will still be the same in another 2 years. Am I alone thinking this way?

[Chisox]

As someone who has been making a living designing boats for over 2 decades (some of you own boats I designed), I have been quite surprised by the lack of interest in more efficient boats. I see a 200 hp OB on a 20' boat and think it has double the power it should need. Are there people interested in 20' boats that can run 35 knots with 100 hp? How about a 25' CC that runs well with a 150?

How often does the average boater get to run at 50+ knots in a small boat? Most places are either too crowded or too choppy to run comfortably at high speeds. I really thought that the relatively high costs of fuel, combined with the lower incomes most of us are experiencing would have created a market for inexpensive (not necessarily small or low quality) boats.

My vision is basically "back to the future". Boats like the original 20' Seacraft or the old Mako 25. These boats had relatively narrow beams and were pretty simple. They were and still are seaworthy designs that could take a family out fishing for a day. They would be less expensive to build, own and power while still getting you out on the water.

I didn't make it to the boat show, but I have seen absolutely nothing from any major manufacturer that says to me they have a vision for a less expensive, more efficient future. That is the thing that troubles me the most, the attitude that the world is the same now as it was 2 years ago and it will still be the same in another 2 years. Am I alone thinking this way?

No, you are not, sir. Case in point, Pro-Line's "Pro-Lite" series. Take older, already tooled hulls, create a simple, all-composite cockpit, power them with efficient 4-Strokes, and price them right...

And a 150 on a 22' is more than adequate, but won't get you a seat where the "big boys" sit...

[Erie Skipper]

Single engine 20-30' boats on Lake Erie still seem to be what is selling--most still used or new boats that are leftover and well discounted. Larger over 30' boats have seen an uptick since the first of the year, especially cruisers and fish boats with nice cabins such as Amberjacks.

I do believe sales are very location specific right now.

[Slough]

Wiley,

From what I personally have witnessed your assessment is spot on. In my area (Big Bend) things are even worse large boat sales are DEAD due to the restrictions on snapper & grouper fishing. It's not so bad once you hit Apalachicola as they have deep water and a more diverse offshore fishery.

Here it is now 24' Bay boats and smaller. The Kayak and canoe market that had received a huge boost from fuel prices gained even more steam.

Very true, but the medium market was dead before the massive restrictions were put in place. The economy hit it first and the restrictions killed it. A lot of people in this area quit offshore fishing because of gas prices. I used to spend $100 to pull boat (21ft) down, go offshore and pull it back. It now takes $300 to $400 a weekend.

[venture34]

I think those big CC buyers are people that like to fish and have the money but dont want the operating expense and large footprint of the Big convertibeles. YOu dont need a captain for those big CC's - the systems are very simple and they can somewhat comfortably, quickly, economically put you and your anglers into the pelagic zone and catch all the big pelagics as effectively as the big boys.

That being said all boats are expensive relative to people's purchasing power these days because like others have said raw material costs are still very high, thanks to the demand from China and the other BRICs....

Hopefully those prices will cool and manufacturers can cut their cost of goods sold....which should translate in lower prices for us..

[Blue Bayou]

I think those big CC buyers are people that like to fish and have the money but dont want the operating expense and large footprint of the Big convertibeles. YOu dont need a captain for those big CC's - the systems are very simple and they can somewhat comfortably, quickly, economically put you and your anglers into the pelagic zone and catch all the big pelagics as effectively as the big boys.

That being said all boats are expensive relative to people's purchasing power these days because like others have said raw material costs are still very high, thanks to the demand from China and the other BRICs....

Hopefully those prices will cool and manufacturers can cut their cost of goods sold....which should translate in lower prices for us..

Ding ding ding....

Can't tell you how many for sale ads I've seen on large convertible sportfishers that say "willing to trade to large center console". This is the situation for a lot of people, but we had a few people come to the show (I was selling the 42 Invincible) that had bigger boats (sportfishers) and were looking for a second, smaller boat, probably for fishing locally and more cheaply.

I disagree with the economy not affecting the people who buy the large center consoles. EVERYONE is affected by this no matter how much money you have. The guys with the extra money are affected even more than the little guys, they have more to lose!

I'll tell you honestly that if it wasn't for the bleak economy right now, the 42 Invincible would be sitting on a brand new upgraded boat lift behind the house a lot quicker than it realistically can be right now.

As far as boats being rigged with power less than what we'd expect, I saw that also. The 42 Invincible was rigged with triples instead of quads, but it drives a good point that the boat can be run fast and efficiently with triples and doesn't necessarily need quads. I think that boat will run like a beast whenever there are 400 HP outboards that aren't racing motors that can run on 87 octane fuel. With triple 350's it still should be a mid-upper 60 mph boat which is fantastic for a boat that size.

I also agree with Wiley about people skipping out on a certain size range. We had some people come through at the show looking for an upper 20's boat when looking at the 33 Invincible. For the most part, the 36 and 42 were the hits of the show. Invincible sells probably double the amount of 36's to the 33's to this date and the 36 is as much as $70,000 more than the 33. Perhaps people realize how much more of a boat the 36 is sizably over the 33, but this is just my input as a vendor at the Miami Boat Show this year.

[boatdesigner]

No, you are not, sir. Case in point, Pro-Line's "Pro-Lite" series. Take older, already tooled hulls, create a simple, all-composite cockpit, power them with efficient 4-Strokes, and price them right...

And a 150 on a 22' is more than adequate, but won't get you a seat where the "big boys" sit...

While the Pro-Lite is a step in that direction, there have been quite a few rolled edge skiffs built over the years. Please don't take that the wrong way, I like the Pro-Lite boats, especially since I designed the hull for the 20CC! I want to take it to the next level and actually design new hulls that are more efficient and build them with full liners so they are finished the way most people expect. Build them with modern materials to keep the weight down and you could have an efficient small boat with a fancy finish. Personally, I like the utilitarian nature of the rolled edge skiffs, but I am not the average boat shopper.

One thing that may also be causing the costs of boats to go up is the reduced volume. During good times, a company can buy resin by the tanker load, around 40,000 pounds if memory serves. But if production drops too low, then you can't use it fast enough and it goes bad in your tank. So now you have to buy the resin in totes (2000 lbs?) or if things are really slow, drums. The less you buy, the more you pay. That goes for all the materials. Some of the builders are actually having trouble getting parts as the suppliers are so dialed back that they can't respond quickly to an order. The last statistics I saw estimate that as much as 75% of the marine industry is unemployed right now. It is really ugly for those of us in the business.

One of my clients was selling quite few boats in the 25-30 foot range over the last few years. He said those sales have all dried up and he attributed it to the home builders going bust. Many of his buyers were contractors who were doing really well, now they can't afford the boats any longer. I think it is going to be a while before those buyers come back.