What are my rights on the water?

[r.waddill]

So I was tooling back from the Bahamas the other day and 5 miles out of St Lucie inlet I spot a vessel coming from the west directly towards us. The time of day was right at dark thirty and its the USCG in a small boat. They cirlce around me and come along side and ask if they can d a safety check. I say sure. So they bring their over size rubber boat next to mine in a decent wind chop at the angle their coming from it could've presented a problem for my rub rails etc so I push the boat off the guy starts yelling at me saying don't push back I inform him if they intend to board let me turn the boat dn sea then bring the rubber boat along side.

they do as I suggest and put a guy on board who resembled a swat team member with all his toys he looked as if he was ready to shoot any second. the kid asked if I had any weapons and I said yes a SW 9mm and 45 rounds. Well that set him off he calls in on the radio he needs back up so they put another guy on board.

they searched my entire boat including the engine room for my "halon inspection" which I did not know was a requirement. Well this crap goes on an hour or so of searching and questions etc. They really wanted to know about my weapon and why i was carrying. I told them that we were fishing in remote areas and I always carry.

Fast forward 2 weeks later my buddy was on the boat with me got pulled over again by the feds. He was on a 20 ft angler with a single outboard. they went as far as removing the batteries to look down in the aft bildge section.

my question is what would happen if we declined to be searched? What if i told them to get a warrant? What would happen what gives them probable cause to stop me and conduct all these checks? Another example is I was at the sand bar mem. day they had helos and cops everywhere and all for 5 BUI's how much tax payer money did that cost us? I am very pro LEO and work in extensively in force protection and ATFP work but it seems a bit extensive to me all this show of force we are in Stuart martin county for cryin out oud not Fallujah!

anyway thats my rant what do yall think!

[OReely]

Good thing you offloaded the dope before they got there!

Seriously, I think I read somewhere that them asking you is just a formality. They can board with out your permission, if memory serves me.

[Gratitude]

Here in NJ when they pull you over...ie State Police who rule the road (and everything you do on the water is attached to your Motor Vehicle Drivers License) along with the Coast Guard who do too, just be prepared to roll over and cooperate . You might need to get over the issues of the smack down and buckle...they are in charge and we just get to be able to have a key in the ignition on the water and not get ticketed or towed back to the nearest dock and put off if we are lucky.

[cataholic]

You know some of them are ok, but I have encountered the young swat type you are talking about. All wrapped up in their authority. Makes you think they must have gone to the Ruby Ridge school of law enforcement.

Punks with a uniform a gun and an attitude.

[davepen]

You're in Florida, so I will asume you have a Florida "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License?" Did they ask to see it?

In the future, tell them you have a weapon because you have a valid Florida license to do so and the 2nd Amendment affirms your individual right to own a firearm.

No further elaboration is required.

[cracker]

You are asking a question that has answers based on whether your in Federal or State Waters. 5 miles offshore your in Federal waters (out to 3 miles in the Atlantic is State Waters). The coasties can wear many hats (As USCG, Homeland Security or National Marine Fisheries Officers). No probably cause is needed to do a safety inspection and if their has been a Nexus with the border (which coming back from the Bahamas, there has) they can detain the boat and look wherever. The USCG is very ###### about firearms on boats and are trained to ask many questions about them. They do not need your permission to do a safety inspection that is just courtesy if they ask. The Feds have much more power and authority than the State guys. They can drill your hull for drugs on mear suspicion because your story does not make sense with other evidence on your boat (say the boat looks like its been at sea a long time with several empty gas cans but you say you have only been out a day).

The state on the other hand is more restrictive. No probably cause is needed to stop a boat and do a safety inspection (same as feds) . To check for Fisheries violations there has to be probably cause you have been fishing (fishing rod on board, spearfish equipment, nets, etc.). Firearms on boats is generally considered Ok by state laws. Many State FWC Officers are deputized as Federal Officers also so they where many hats also.

This is a very basic explaination of what is needed to stop a boat. While it can be a bit of a hassle and it seems you felt the officer was too SWATish looking, you must remember back up on the water is almost non existant or can take a while, particularily for the FWC officers who mainly work alone. Also it is probably a violation of the USCG Policy for a single boarding officer to be on a boat by himself if he is aware of a weapon on board. Hopefully I answered some of your questions....

[r.waddill]

You are asking a question that has answers based on whether your in Federal or State Waters. 5 miles offshore your in Federal waters (out to 3 miles in the Atlantic is State Waters). The coasties can wear many hats (As USCG, Homeland Security or National Marine Fisheries Officers). No probably cause is needed to do a safety inspection and if their has been a Nexus with the border (which coming back from the Bahamas, there has) they can detain the boat and look wherever. The USCG is very ###### about firearms on boats and are trained to ask many questions about them. They do not need your permission to do a safety inspection that is just courtesy if they ask. The Feds have much more power and authority than the State guys. They can drill your hull for drugs on mear suspicion because your story does not make sense with other evidence on your boat (say the boat looks like its been at sea a long time with several empty gas cans but you say you have only been out a day).

The state on the other hand is more restrictive. No probably cause is needed to stop a boat and do a safety inspection (same as feds) . To check for Fisheries violations there has to be probably cause you have been fishing (fishing rod on board, spearfish equipment, nets, etc.). Firearms on boats is generally considered Ok by state laws. Many State FWC Officers are deputized as Federal Officers also so they where many hats also.

This is a very basic explaination of what is needed to stop a boat. While it can be a bit of a hassle and it seems you felt the officer was too SWATish looking, you must remember back up on the water is almost non existant or can take a while, particularily for the FWC officers who mainly work alone. Also it is probably a violation of the USCG Policy for a single boarding officer to be on a boat by himself if he is aware of a weapon on board. Hopefully I answered some of your questions....

.

Cracker

You cleared up some issues one final question for you .can you refuse boarding by a state or local officer if you are a federally documented boat? I assume that would really be asking for troube

[rchanner]

I think that to refuse them boarding permission in itself would be probable cause. If they asked to board for a safety inspection and you refused, you can bet the next question in their minds is going to be "what are they hiding?" As soon as that question arises, there's the probable cause, you're boarded anyway, and will probably be cuffed while your boat is ransacked.

[cracker]

You are required by law to cooperate with safety inspection, if you dont the officer may board your boat to check for it without a warrant. Fisheries inspection the officer just needs Probably Cause you have been fishing. If you refuse, that might take a warrant (been 15 years since I was in Marine Enforcement) but for sure you can be detained while a warrant is gotten and you will surely be holding a ticket for the slightest violation whether its boating or fisheries related. For the most part, inspection and searches of boats are much easier and require much less legal requirements than to search a vehicle or a residence. My best advice is to cooperate, if for some reason the officers do something you dont like, report them to their supervisors.

[Trollnheel]

We had an interesting situation happen this past Sunday. We were tied up at the fuel docks. Pop and our buddy had their fishing license. Mine expired the day before. We had rods on the boat. My question is, if we had rods on the boat but no fish on the boat, could they have given me a ticket?